rethinking worship

Hello..I'm at a place with wifi so I'm cat...

2011-09-12T12:26:24.739-07:00

Hello..I'm at a place with wifi so I'm catching up on your blog. Good stuff, I continue to be impressed with your insight.

I know the Holy Spirit is moving in our last two S...

2011-06-22T05:56:43.111-07:00

I know the Holy Spirit is moving in our last two Sunday services. Usually on the last worship song which is during family altar, our pastor would invite the congregation to come forward to bring their praises, concerns, etc. This way of business changed two Sundays ago - we were about two songs before altar call, and a woman (who never came to altar call in the past) started to sob loudly asking forgiveness and last Sunday about two songs before altar call, quite a few people came forward on their own accord. One burly guy who also never came forward started to cry out loud for help and forgiveness. Wow!! If that is not the Holy Spirit moving, I don't know what it is. Selah!

than you pastor this information was indeed very v...

2011-04-06T16:25:28.959-07:00

than you pastor this information was indeed very very helpful.

Ridiculous that kid.

2011-03-23T12:39:05.797-07:00

Ridiculous that kid.

I absolutey agree! Great point. PN

2011-03-18T11:06:05.784-07:00

I absolutey agree! Great point.

PN

Great practical input. An additional thought from...

2011-03-18T10:41:32.509-07:00

Great practical input.

An additional thought from the point of view of the main speaker charged with the task of communicating God's primary message for the day - I would encourage worship leaders to avoid addressing more than one area of focused exhortation during a service. Small bits of encouragement peppered throughout are great and a few moments of clear direction at one spot is extremely beneficial! But the worship leader who exhorts multiple times on unrelated topics (usually because the songs have different themes) devalues the impact of any one topic he has addressed by the addition of the others. The primary speaker then has the misfortune of communicating the fourth or fifth sermon for the day, and people are forced to sort through multiple messages and answer, "What was the Lord speaking to me today?"

This is one of those cases where less really is more.

Hi there, Nice post and nice thoughts. I do agree...

2011-02-28T13:16:23.196-08:00

Hi there,

Nice post and nice thoughts. I do agree. We need to get serious about these issues because songs are so influential. Whether we like it or not they do have power. People learn so much of their theology from songs its crazy. We need to think deeply about this!

I have blogged about similar things. Would like your thoughts. You can find it here .

Cameron

LOL. Yes I can tell that you're nervous, but y...

2010-07-22T14:23:34.803-07:00

LOL. Yes I can tell that you're nervous, but you don't need to be!

Heart issues: I'm not sure there is one specific verse I would send you to. I love this one though:

Is 29:13 "And so the Lord says, “These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote."

Another translation ends it this way:
"...and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men..."

I feel like this verse shows the delicate balance of worshiping and performance. I think that if you're heart is near the Lord, you are experiencing Him, not just singing about Him, then you're heart is probably in the right place. But only you can know that! There are some basic check-lists like 1. daily devotions? 2. tithing? 3. Commitment to the House? 4. Attitudes?, etc. All of these things indicate a heart for the Lord.

Songs - I'm not sure which songs we will choose from at this point. I will let you know as soon as I know.

Range - all about breathing. Open that diaphragm and breath!!! Relax and don't get tight vocal cords.

See ya! Thanks for reading my blog!!

PN

I have found that changing keys does work most of ...

2010-07-22T14:14:17.246-07:00

I have found that changing keys does work most of the time. David Crowder is famous for doing this. He takes every song that is written in G and plays it in Bb. His whole reasoning is to get the guys to sing louder. I thought it was just a funny joke till I tried it and it worked for me. Try it out. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Let us know!

And I totally agree with you about the volume thing. Its a delicate balance between just enough volume and too much volume. This question needs to be addressed: at what point do people feel most comfortable singing out loud?

PN

Nice thoughts. I'm interested in trying the &...

2010-07-22T10:36:50.747-07:00

Nice thoughts. I'm interested in trying the "changing keys" thing. I wonder if that actually works.

I do agree that volume is a key element in congregation participation. There’s nothing worse than being self conscious that your neighbors are listening while you worship.

Amen to the #12! I feel I constantly struggle wit...

2010-07-21T15:05:11.156-07:00

Amen to the #12! I feel I constantly struggle with this DURING worship--trying to keep my focus on worshipping God rather than just enjoying the music, enjoying singing, etc. How do you know you're heart is in the right place to lead people into worship?! Verses please?! I looked some up after we talked, but I wouldn't mind hearing some more! P.S. Could you tell me the songs that we would choose from in August, or is that a secret until we get there? P.S.S. Do you have any special tips to work your range, strength, etc? P.S.S.S. Can you tell I'm nervous?

Totally agree. However, the problem is that you do...

2010-07-21T14:13:53.040-07:00

Totally agree. However, the problem is that you do have to keep it at a reasonable volume. So when the volume concept is tapped out, try some of the other options. They really work.

So how did you end up on rethinkingworship?

Good tips. I constantly encourage the turning up ...

2010-07-21T13:33:30.432-07:00

Good tips. I constantly encourage the turning up the volume idea. Our sound guys have a hard time with that.

People are so much more comfortable when the volume of the band is raised.

I would like to hear about the union of fear and g...

2010-06-01T13:09:55.760-07:00

I would like to hear about the union of fear and great joy. Such as in Matt 28 when the woman were told to go tell the discipiles the the Lord has risen.

We often think of fear and joy being oposed to each other, but they do not seem to be.

Nice list. I especially like #1 for worship. Self ...

2010-05-24T07:38:06.341-07:00

Nice list. I especially like #1 for worship. Self centered worship just seems a little shallow somehow. Unfortunately, I think we're seeing more and more of it these days.

Anyway, thanks for posting.

I actually looked at that blog post for help for l...

2010-05-07T19:09:34.519-07:00

I actually looked at that blog post for help for leading a 1 1/2 hour time of worship at the church i'm interning. It's called Otterbein Church in Waynesboro, PA. I am finishing up at Huntington University in Huntington, IN with a Worship Leadership major and Music minor. The night was very energetic and many comments professed thankfulness of how the night was put together and how it touched their life. All the glory and praise and honor to God.

@steven ganz - to be honest, they are a work in pr...

2010-05-05T15:40:30.916-07:00

@steven ganz - to be honest, they are a work in progress. I do, however, know what some of them are. Here are a few:

1. Preparation/administration
- I have to do a great job with the things I can control. It really is my choice how I prepare and if I prepare. I look at my preparation in a few different areas:
a) Prayer
1. Have a prayed over the service and prepared the way for the spirit of God to have freedom in our service?
b) Music
1. Have I memorized the music?
c) Leadership
1. Have I given the members of my team every opportunity to be successful? (i.e. do they have music in advance? Are their parts clear? Do they know what I want from them?)
2. Have I communicated clearly with them?
d) Personal Disciplines
1. Am I living a repentant life that honors God?
2. Am I consistently in the word and prayer?
3. Am I seeking God on a personal level, not solely a corporate one?

2. Have I done what my senior pastor asks?
a) I am not the captain of the ship. Even though I have a large role, my ultimate role is to submit to the leadership and direction of my pastor.

3. Removing obstacles
a) It's important for me, as the leader, to "pave the way" for people to worship God freely.
1. Do I take an aggressive approach at removing obstacles that hinder?
2. Do I train others at removing obstacles as well?
3. Am I considerate of others while still dealing with issues?

These are just a few that I've come up with so far. The problem with determining the success of a worship experience is that you can do all of this and still not feel successful or you can do none of it and God can just move powerfully. It's super weird. My point is to identify the things we can control and do them with excellence. The goal is to eliminate excuses and believe that God will do his part. :)

What do you think?

You're welcome! I'm glad it was helpful fo...

2010-05-05T15:14:08.966-07:00

You're welcome! I'm glad it was helpful for you. Look around a bit; especially under the "for the worship leader" tag. I think you'll find a bunch of helpful hints and thoughts.

Also, I hope this isn't too bold, but I'm curious where you are going to school and where you are interning. You mind sharing? You can always message me.

I am a worship leadership major finishing up my de...

2010-05-05T10:01:58.640-07:00

I am a worship leadership major finishing up my degree by doing an internship at a church. This is very helpful. Thank you for posting it.

Nathan, Thanks for the article. Thought provoking...

2010-04-28T11:56:54.071-07:00

Nathan,
Thanks for the article. Thought provoking as usual.

In thinking about this though, my problem is that I’m not sure what “measurable” goals there actually are in a corporate worship time that don’t turn out to be ultimately pretty superficial. I guess the general purpose of the worship team is to create an atmosphere of worship and facilitate the free move of the Holy Spirit in the participants. Neither of which can be measured specifically.

However, having said that, it does occur to me that leading worship does parallel our Christian walk to a certain extent. We are trying to die to ourselves personally, and trying to be transparent (limiting distractions) in a worship leading environment. So as you point out, getting the words up at the right time, hitting the right chords, being tight and together, choosing the right songs that flow together, etc, can all be decent measurable goals.

This would make a great live discussion I think.

Thanks again. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Are you going to let us know your criteria(s) for ...

2010-04-28T08:16:43.213-07:00

Are you going to let us know your criteria(s) for determining success?

I also expand on this in my blog "Spot the Wo...

2010-04-14T22:04:49.319-07:00

I also expand on this in my blog "Spot the Worship leader"

good job and I am glad others have the discernment to see and be concerned about these issues

God's Heart

Sir Richard

Thanks, Dad! I appreciate it.

2010-03-26T14:08:06.473-07:00

Thanks, Dad! I appreciate it.

Great thoughts Nathan!

2010-03-26T10:45:23.784-07:00

Great thoughts Nathan!

I agree with this wholeheartedly. There have been...

2010-03-25T18:03:33.167-07:00

I agree with this wholeheartedly. There have been some churches where I was completely turned off because it seemed like they were trying too hard to be current and in turn the service seemed like a huge production that glorified the church instead of God.

-Teresa